Alex Church-Gonzales Hates Dramatic Pauses

by Kevin Russell Poole, Photos by Kevin Russell Poole

I sat down with Alex Church-Gonzales this week for a chat about her theatre artistry, her dream projects, and her favorite airplane movies. I have known Alex since 2018, when we worked together at New Dramatists, and I have been lucky enough to continue to work alongside her—from Breaking & Entering to King David Tacos, the breakfast taco cart that employs both of us, and occasionally, naively schedules us together. I’m so glad Alex made the time to hang out with me this week! This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Kevin Russell Poole: Hi Alex!

Alex Church-Gonzales: Hey!

Kevin: How are you doing?

Alex: I'm good! I feel like this question always expects a life update, and I do not have one, and that is bizarrely thrilling.

Kevin: Congratulations!

Alex: Thank you!

Kevin: Okay, how do you identify as an artist?

Alex: Director primarily, costumer secondarily, and then everything else.

Kevin: She does it all! You really do everything. You are always so busy, except for right now.

Alex: Except for right now!

Kevin: When did you know that you wanted to be a director? 

Alex: Definitely after I got into college for it. Not before, that's for sure. But I grew up doing musical theatre and loving musical theatre, but I cannot sing, act, or dance, which is fine for being a person, but bad for being in musical theatre on Broadway. But I like being in charge of things, and I am good at leading group projects, so directing felt like a safe bet. I think it really probably clicked with my thesis, which was, terrifyingly, the first thing I directed on my own. It was just a fun little zany devised group, and it was nice and wonderful and repeatable and that was really cool!

Kevin: What was it called?

Alex: The show was called Everyone Hated Us and it was based off of a documentary about the Dana Carvey Show, which was a sketch comedy show in ‘96ish. It ran for one season; it did not run very long.

Kevin: And you went to school for directing?

Alex: Yeah.

Kevin: So that was a lucky guess?

Alex: I knew theater was right. I had done costume design at that point in my life, but I was scared of pigeonholing myself. I'm also not great at actually drawing, which is fine when you already are a costume designer, but much harder when you're trying to become one. So I did a Google search, and there are like 8 colleges in America that actually offer a directing degree, and not, like, a “Theater Arts Concentration.” And it does not matter! But it matters when you're 18 and stubborn. I think I made the right call. I don't know how, but I think it all worked out well.

Kevin: I love that you made the right call! How would you describe your aesthetic as a director?

Alex: Man, I love spectacular things. When things become spectacle, I think they need weight. If it's pretty, but it doesn't make you cry, then it's not doing anything. I think if you're coming to see an Alex play you're probably, statistically, going to get some teenage girls, you're going to get some sort of body gore– with a trigger warning! Hopefully you're not getting a lot of dramatic pauses.

Kevin: (Laughs)

Alex: Real quick, real snappy, no intermission, let’s go! I love magic. I don’t love a lot of realism.  I always want to see something new. I think I always want to give people something new.

Kevin: I want to see an Alex show!

Alex: Me too, man.

Kevin: Okay, it would make more sense to ask this about directing, but I'm going to throw you a curveball and ask what is your dream show to costume?

Alex: Honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever thought about it. I’m just going to rapid-fire. Guilty pleasure. I’d love to redesign Wicked.

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Alex: We know what it looks like, but I’d love my own take on Wicked. I don't know anything about ballet, but I've always loved the Nutcracker dress that opens up and all the people come out of. That’s just bonkers fun to me. I've always wanted to do–this is something that I think I'd direct and costume design–I’ve always wanted to take Cabaret, re-orchestrate it, make it more 80s synth, and do it somewhat immersive, and mashup 1940s Germany with 1980s London and somewhat contemporary America in a not-obnoxious way, and really hit all that weird, crazy punk stuff. 

Kevin: Oh my god, that’s so fun and juicy! Okay is there a film or TV show that you think we would be surprised to hear that you love?

Alex: Oh I love the Kingsman movies with Colin Firth and Taron Egerton! I only watch them on airplanes, and I will watch them if they are an option. And sometimes I don't have my headphones, but those movies are so well-made that you can hear the sound effects just by the way that it’s shot because everything's so exaggerated. And they're stupid and gory and just great and dumb; they’re so good. Elton John is in the second one! Oh they’re bonkers. 

Kevin: Are there any other things like that, or is that the only one that you've gotten into?

Alex: I always liked spy and superhero movies. I wasn't a huge comics kid, but I like the challenge of like “okay, how do we do this thing that we all know this actor can't do because they don't have superpowers? How do we fake all that?” It's just so fun. I love all the old X-Man movies for that reason. If I ever got into film I think I'd love to do a good old-fashioned coming-of-age superhero movie.

Kevin: Those are the best ones! That’s why I’m so into the Spider-Man movies. Have you seen Bumblebee? The Transformers prequel?

Alex: No I haven't.

Kevin: That's that's a really fun one that I was surprised to love.

Alex: I am writing it down! Because I’ve defended that movie at parties and gone, “no, it has to be the best Transformers movie because it's written by a woman or something! And I'm sure it has the most heart!” But I haven't seen it. (Laughs)

Kevin: (Laughs) Okay, what is one of your favorite shows you've ever worked on?

Alex: I loved Small Town Icons [by SMJ, produced by Breaking & Entering in PEA Fest 2019]. Small Town Icons was good. It all just fell into place, and I would have been pissed if I had to watch anyone else direct that piece.

Kevin: (Laughs) And, of course, we gave you one of the hardest jobs of the entire festival by giving you the longest play and asking you to costume all seven pieces.

Alex: Yeah! You did!

Kevin: And you really turned it out!

Alex: Yeah, no one was naked! Except for one actor that was almost naked.

Kevin: Except for Xander [Browne, in Sweet Shop by Tori Lassman]. And I feel like that is just the best example of Alex Church-Gonzales: the busiest person alive who still pulls it off no matter what. Because you were also in school! 

Alex: And I also was working! I don't remember which night of tech it was, but I ran over from Macy's on my dinner break and threw costume pieces at people for 40 minutes and was like “Okay, I need to be back in costume at work in 20 minutes! Good bye! I love you! Great show!”

Kevin: As a Macy's elf! 

Alex: Yeah I miss it so–I miss all of it so much!

Kevin: Okay, I only have one more question. Do you have anything coming up?

Alex: I don't!

Kevin: I think that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that from you.

Alex: Yeah, I’m thrilled! My mom keeps calling me like, “what are you doing?” and I'm like, “nothing and it's awesome!” And they're like “cool” and they’ll call me two weeks later and be like “what are you up to?” And I’m like, “I watched 11 episodes of Say Yes to the Dress this week!”

Kevin: Are there any projects that you want to manifest?

Alex: There's a piece about teenagers and the internet and camping and youth and embarrassment and all that juicy fun grossness that will come when it comes. I think I’ve burned out on Zoom theater, which is unfortunate. I need to be in a room! I had this revelation–oh god–watching this Peloton commercial. (Laughs) The trainers are crazy! They're so into it! If I was in person and anyone with a straight face told me, “All right! Get savage! Rip it up!” I'm getting off the bike and going home, but because you're in a screen, you need to deliver that so much more! 

Kevin: It’s a performance the entire time as the director.

Alex: I am not a performer, I did not sign up for this!

Kevin: No you did not! Great, okay, we'll get this pandemic under control so we can get you back in the room!

Alex: I would love it.

Kevin: Tell me more about this teenage, camping, guts play that you’re manifesting!

Alex: I think it's a devised piece, I think it's linear and plot-based, which is not always a given with devised work. And I don't think it exists yet.

Kevin: We're going to have people reach out to you and say, “hello, I want to make that as well!”

Alex: Please! It’s fun, it’s gross, maybe it has puppets? Who knows?

Kevin: A perfect Alex Church-Gonzales piece! Thank you so much for talking to me. I cannot wait for theatre to get back to normal so that we can–“we” meaning Breaking & Entering, and also just me personally–can produce things that you direct and create because I am just completely obsessed with you as an artist!

Stay up-to-date with everything Alex is working on at her website, alexchurchgonzales.com. You can also watch the Virtual Rooftop Reading she directed, this world is for the frat bros by Chloe Xtina!

E.B. Hinnant is a Maniacal Villain or a Sad Gay Ingénue

by Chloé Hayat, photos by Kevin Russell Poole

Chloé sat down with E.B. Hinnant for a quick chat on Zoom to talk about his love of acting and songwriting. E.B. was wearing the chunky white sweater to end all chunky white sweaters, while his roommate did some light (read: loud) redecorating in the next room. Despite the noise, Chloé and E.B. talked about the very specific niches he has found both in theatre and music. You are encouraged to put on his debut EP, Body Work by Fripp, in the background as you read the interview! The following has been edited for length and clarity.

Chloé Hayat: I am super happy to talk to you because I know you as an actor, but I’m really excited to hear about all the other things that you're doing. So, tell us about yourself as an artist!

E.B. Hinnant: I am equally an actor and a songwriter. I've been professionally acting for a bit longer than I've been professionally songwriting, but I am equally as invested in both halves of my career path. I, as an actor, really enjoy villains and silly huge maniacal characters, and I also really enjoy sad gay ingenue boys.

Chloé: (Laughs) I've seen you play both beautifully.

E.B.: Thanks! And as a songwriter I really like the lyricism of country and singer/songwriter writers with the sonic textures of electronics, organs, old drum machines, and brass and woodwinds. 

Chloé: Wow!

E.B.: That gives you a good idea. Also always southern, always a little dark, and always hopefully a little bit silly.

Chloé: Oh for sure. I feel like there are such interesting things about what you just described about your music that cross over in your acting as well. I’m really interested in how you found your way to both of those art forms. Have you always been interested in songwriting? Tell me the whole story!

E.B.: I was in my first play when I was eleven years old. My mom tried to put me into a bunch of different avenues, I had a year of piano lessons, I did violin, she tried to make me “well-rounded.” [That] has always been her word to describe trying to raise a child. And I was in my first play, Alvin Fernald, Mayor for a Day when I was eleven years old at the Fort Mill Community Playhouse and I ate that shit up. There was famously one performance where one of the minor characters came in [at the beginning of the play], and put us into the second act.

Chloé: Oh my god.

E.B.: And from her fuck-up we had like 20 pages of play left, and I was able to mastermind and rearrange the play so that I could send everybody off to different places so we could get back to the beginning.

Chloé: Oh my god, that's amazing

E.B.: So I think from then on I was like, “okay cool, this is something I’m good at!”

Chloé: Yeah and you can mastermind your way around anything.

E.B.: (laughs) Yeah! I did take a year of piano lessons and then for some reason just stopped. I took those when I was about ten, and then afterwards we just had a piano in the house that was horrifically out of tune, but I would just go sit there for awhile and close the doors and practice French horn, which is what I played for a really long time, which I still have in my room.

Chloé: Woah! That didn't come out in “describe yourself as an artist!”

E.B.: (Laughs) I mean I played it for ten years.

Chloé: (Laughs) You just said that so casually!

E.B.: I played it for ten years but I don't still practice my horn every day. Anyway I would just sit at the piano and write tiny little scraps of music, and I would try to make things harder for myself as I kept writing, so I was also getting better at piano at the same time. That's how I got started as a songwriter, but I didn't officially write something that I thought was good until I was eighteen, and I wrote the first song, [“Orion”] which is on my EP.

Chloé: Wow

E.B.: And then after that I just said, “okay cool, I can write songs that are not bad, so why don't I keep doing that?” Songwriting [and acting] kind of feed each other. They're not entirely connected but they fill in gaps for me where the other fails. As an actor, I don't really get to say my own words; I am a vessel into other people's thoughts and ideas, and I give them life. But as a songwriter it is literally what I'm saying. It is my perspective and it is what I wish to communicate. But because of that, it almost feels like it's less imagination because my songwriting is autobiographical, so I'm just me the whole time.

Chloé: You don't get to be somebody else.

E.B.: Yeah! At least yet. Maybe I'll figure out a way to play characters in my songwriting.

Chloé: You actually shared a song in the [Line-Up] writers group that sounded like it was a fable or a story. Are you heading into that territory?

E.B.: Yes! I am actively trying to write things that are not autobiographical pieces. I really like what a lot of country songwriters do, which is tell stories, and a lot of times they tell stories that are just them playing a character. I really enjoy that and I'm trying to infuse that into what I’m doing as well. 

Chloé: That's so awesome! What a cool challenge to set for yourself. Okay so what's your biggest artistic achievement in and out of theatre?

E.B.: Oh god, in theatre was the play that I did in 2019, at Boise Contemporary Theatre. I did Samuel D. Hunter’s Clarkston.

Chloé: Oh yeah hell yeah! Oh my god, that’s like my favorite play!

E.B.: Me too! It’s just a beautiful queer play with a character that I really aligned with and also really challenged me, which is like a perfect marriage of things. And it was at a venue that was beautiful and perfectly made for the play, it was in a beautiful place, everybody that was working on it was just so fucking good at what they do, and I had a wonderful wonderful time doing that play. I miss it all the time! Outside of being an actor, releasing my record [Body Work] is a huge artistic achievement for me.

Chloé: And you've gotten some amazing feedback and reviews! That's so exciting!

E.B.: Yeah! Which I've been outrageously grateful for. I kept lowering the stakes for myself on this project being like, “if it’s just out, if I'm able to get these drum beats and these synth parts lined up, and if I'm able to sound okay as a singer, and just get it out in the world, then it will be fine.” And as it kept progressing, I was like, “okay maybe if 100 people listen to it, if 500 people listen to it,” you know, I've kept raising the stakes for myself, which has been exciting!

Chloé: That's so great. Congratulations again on that!

E.B.: Thanks!

Chloé: Who is an artist that inspires you that we would be surprised to learn about?

E.B.: That you would not be surprised to learn about is: Dolly Parton.

Chloé: That’s not surprising! 

E.B.: That you would be surprised to learn about is: three of my favorite actors are Sam Rockwell, Donna Murphy, and Condola Rashād. Sam Rockwell is just... I love him! He’s just so exciting and I just really like what he does. Donna Murphy is, I think, one of the most under-appreciated actors around. She's so warm and physically alive and phenomenal in what she does. Condola Rashād has the most captivating eyes of any person in the whole world. 

Chloé: I was gonna say! Her eyes!

E.B.: And she's able to just stand and be so commanding. She’s able to do so much with stillness. It astounds me! So those are some exciting ones to me.

Chloé: Those are good answers! I mean, Dolly Parton is obviously a great answer, but not surprising after everything you've just said.

E.B.: Yeah, I also yell about that woman all the time. I love Dolly Parton.

Chloé: What have you learned or changed about how you perform during this pandemic?

E.B.: I have learned so much more about how much I love to use my body, and how much I've not been able to really do that through Zoom theatre. My body is oftentimes my access point into a character– that’s why clothing means so much to me. The actual physical feeling of costumes and getting to physically move in a space, that's my “in” and I don't really have this in Zoom theatre. As a songwriter, I have really wanted to be able to play some live shows with releasing a record. Originally, I thought I was going to rent a little van and do a tour, so I haven't been able to do that, but I have been able to amass a couple of socially distant shows, outdoor shows before it got too cold. I had a really great time doing those; I'm really proud of them. One in Prospect Park, one in my friend Charles’ backyard with like (laughs)  five people. But it was a small backyard!

Chloé: That's still awesome!

E.B.: It's been nice to be able to get tested and perform some shows.

Chloé: Okay, so what is next for you?

E.B.: I’m working on a full-length album; it's coming slowly. And I am constantly doing Zoom theatre.

Chloé: Oh good!

E.B.: Yeah! And cassettes of my record are coming, which is really exciting, and I'm working on another music video.

Chloé: That's so exciting you're doing so much! That's so impressive.

E.B.: Thanks, I like to stay busy!

Chloé: I get that.

E.B.: Yeah, downtime is dangerous.

Chloé: I’m just so happy that we got to chat, I learned so much about you in the last 15 minutes. Thank you so much for sharing!

E.B.: Totally totally!

Keep up with E.B. on Instagram (@ebhthree) and Twitter (@ebhthree). Learn more about his music on Instagram (@itsfripp) and Twitter (@its_fripp), and check out his recent music video for his song, Honey. You can also buy his music at fripp.bandcamp.com, or listen on all streaming platforms. Lastly, check out his most recent Breaking & Entering performance in the Virtual Rooftop Reading of Erastes by Andres Osorio.

Chloé Hayat Has Her Hands in a Lot of Pies

by Kevin Russell Poole, photos by Kevin Russell Poole

After a brief holiday-induced intermission, we’re back with another interview! To kick off the new year, I sat down via Zoom with Chloé to learn a bit more about the woman behind the Rap-Sheet interviews! Chloé has one of the strongest, most specific artistic tastes, that she answered every question almost before I could finish asking it. You’ll be hard-pressed to find an artist that is as excited to rave about other people’s work! The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Kevin Russell Poole: Chloé I am so excited that you finally get to be interviewed!

Chloé Hayat: I am so excited that I get to be interviewed by you!

Kevin: It's an honor for me as well! We've heard you ask so many lovely questions and now the audience is demanding to know more from you. So, first and foremost, let the readers know how you describe yourself as an artist.

Chloé: I describe myself as a playwright, a dramaturg, a makeup artist and a producer.

Kevin: I love that! Have you done makeup for theatre?

Chloé: Mhm! I got my makeup certificate in 2013, and pretty much did that throughout college for money. Most of what I did was student films, theatre, and drag. And honestly those were the best. Character creation is one of my favorite things and it actually takes a lot of dramaturgy because you have to think, “what does the character have access to? What do they like? Who are their makeup idols? What do they want to look like? What do they want to cover up?” It's so much fun.

Kevin: That's so cool that you brought your writer dramaturgy brain into it.

Chloé: I often over-complicated things.

Kevin: Hey! And that's what college is for!

Chloé: And then you learn to pare it back when you're a grown-up.

Kevin: Exactly. Or you don't! 

Chloé: Or you don't!

Kevin: And that's also beautiful! How did you get involved with Breaking & Entering?

Chloé: Well, I had the honor and privilege to train Emily [Bubeck, Artistic Director of Breaking & Entering] as an intern at New Dramatists, and literally day one I loved her. I made some stupid joke while I was training and Emily laughed at it and immediately did a silly voice and I was like, “oh I love this girl.” And then Emily trained [you] and I loved [you] day one, because [you] told Connie Hall that [you] would take pictures for their Instagram as long as [you] could be in every picture, and I thought, “that’s a kid I need to be friends with!” And so I’ve been along for the ride since you guys told me your plans! I was like, “that sounds excellent and exciting! How do I join?”

Kevin: And we said “Help us! You're in! Let's do this!” So primarily you describe yourself as a writer.

Chloé: Yes.

Kevin: When did you realize that you wanted to be a writer?

Chloé: (Laughs) That's a good question! I remember very distinctly when I was ten, I was obsessed with the American revolution, and there were all those Dear America books that were journals written by young women in historical time periods, so I had my parents buy me a little leather-bound journal and I wrote a first-person diary of a girl in the American revolution. And then when I was twelve, I went to a middle school for writers and artists, and I took my journal and turned it into a screenplay, and was like, “oh this is the format that I've been looking for” and I have not stopped playwriting since then. 

Kevin: What is the first play you ever wrote? 

Chloé: The first actual play I ever wrote was at Young Playwrights Inc. I love them, they saved my life, they’re an incredible organization. Anyway, I wrote a play about a teenage girl named Alonie, and that's important because it’s supposed to reference the fact that she's alone, so it’s spelled “Alone” with an “ie” at the end, and her– I swear to god– her boyfriend dies in a motorcycle accident, so she kills herself, as you would, obviously, if your boyfriend died in a motorcycle accident. And her ghost has to haunt her evangelical Christian father’s house, until they learn to communicate with each other. I have never met an evangelical Christian still to this day! 

Kevin: (Laughs)

Chloé: I don't have this problem with my parents. I’ve never ever been at odds with my parents. I don't know where this story  came from. And so the only way that she can figure out to communicate with her father is when he listens to (long pause) Green Day and Nirvana. And so the title of this play is All Apologies (laughs) based on the Nirvana song.

Kevin: Oh Chloé.

Chloé: And if anyone wants to see a monologue that I read aloud from this, we over at After School Special [Theatre] did a challenge where we had to read our very first monologues out loud, and I hadn't read it in like ten years. It is so hard to get through, Kev.

Kevin: I've never wanted to see a play more than to see your fifteen-year-old self’s play.

Chloé: So here's the thing about Young Playwrights Inc. They do readings of our plays with very professional actors. A very professional working actor had to read this role out loud in front of people at Cherry Lane, and Lucille Lortel. I thought I was a real writer.

Kevin: But how amazing! What a cool opportunity for you! How wonderful that it gave you so much confidence to continue on with your career. Now you write incredible plays that real actors read and you're not mortified. 

Chloé: I'm not! I'm not generally mortified by my work anymore! And I hope that ten years from now I don't feel the same way about my adult writing!

Kevin: We’ll see! Let's check back in ten years! This is our little time capsule. Okay, now what is a play that you wish you had written?

Chloé: Wow... There are so many honestly. I might have said Hamilton a while ago. But more recently, I produced Cheri Magid’s play, The Virtues of Raw Oysters. And the first time I read it I was like “Wait! That’s not fair! How did you think of this first?” It’s brilliant, it’s so fucking good! It's about a street urchin in 1894 who discovers that he can sell smut over the newly invented phonograph. And it's a vaudeville, it’s burlesque, it's sexy, it's funny, it’s about New York City in 1890, those are all things that are like, “you went into my brain and you took this out of my brain and you put it on a piece of paper.” And I'm so happy that that play exists. I am incredibly jealous.

Kevin: Yeah you could definitely tell people that’s your play and there's not a person in the world who wouldn't believe you. Okay what is a TV show that you could write essays about your artistic admiration for?

Chloé: Harlots!

Kevin: Harlots?

Chloé: Harlots! It is on Hulu! Nobody watches this show! I literally yell about this show all the time; it is my favorite show. I have written essays about how much I love this show. Harlots is about– there’s gonna be a trend here– Harlots is about sex-workers in 1770 London, they’re all shapes and sizes and races, it shows history not through a white conqueror’s, colonial lens. It shows all of the sexualities of people, that gay people existed in 1770, that black women had autonomy, and it shows like sex workers in a very positive, very realistic light... It’s just like so brilliantly directed and shot and lit that there’s a very clear difference between sex work and love and passion and neither of them are bad. And obviously it shows realistic dangers, and women taking care of each other, and also women clashing with each other– but not over men–  over power and responsibility. God, I love it. It's so clear, it's so intersectional, UGH! 

Kevin: I feel like we have learned so much about your work without talking about anything you've written in the last ten years. What are you working on now?

Chloé: Actually, I've got my hands on a lot of… fires? What do they say? I forgot the idiom as I started saying it. I've got lots of pots on the fire?

Kevin: Hands in a lot of…

Chloé: Pies? That seems disgusting.

Kevin: Don't put your hands in pies! I know what you're saying!

Chloé: Thank you Kev!

Kevin: I assume our readers will as well!

Chloé: I really hope so! I’m doing a lot of things right now, is what I mean to say! I am in the middle of rewriting a couple of things. I'm rewriting the play that I had the privilege of doing [at The Pre-Emerging Artist Festival] last year.

Kevin: The End of Incorporated Filth!

Chloé: The End of incorporated Filth! Yeah! I learned so much about the piece through the PEA Fest process and I have a really clear direction where I wanna go with it. And I’m also writing a play about Pharaoh Hatshepsut, who is currently my queer Arab bi-con, and that one is the first play that feels truly close to my identity. And for fun, and a little but of a breather for my brain, I’m working  on a disco murder mystery musical with my collaborator Jonah Bobo, the composer….[We’re] writing a filthy dirty disco cocaine musical, with murder! The other thing I’m doing is producing  the Hit and Run reading series with Theatre Accident and Matt Freeman where we take exciting, passionate voices and put together these hit and run readings where we have short rehearsal times, we throw things against the wall, and see what sticks! This month we’re doing a play by David Cote called Saint Joe about Joseph of Jesus, Mary, and. And next month we’re doing a play by May Treuhaft-Ali, who I love! Actually, who did YPI with me who might remember my horrible plays! So I’m so excited!

Kevin: When is the reading this month?

Chloé: This month is Tuesday, January 19! At 7PM!

Kevin: I’m putting it on my calendar right now! Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me. I feel like I have an even deeper understanding of you as an artist!

You can stay up-to-date with Chloé at chloehayat.com and her Instagram (@chloehayat36)! Learn more about her theatre company, After School Special Theatre at afterschoolspecialtheatre.com and their Instagram (@afterschoolspecial.theatre). And check out the Hit & Run series with Theatre Accident at theateraccident.org and their Instagram (@theatreaccident).

Emily Bubeck Doesn't Need Permission to Make Art

by Chloé Hayat, edited by Kevin Russell Poole, photos by Kevin Russell Poole

Chloé and Emily Bubeck, Artistic Director of Breaking & Entering hopped on a zoom to chat about the genesis of Breaking & Entering, current projects, and making people sob. With the holidays rapidly approaching, and many crochet commissions piling up, Emily crocheted steadily throughout the conversation. Her hands never stopped moving while she successfully and eloquently answered every question. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Chloé: Hi Emily! I’m happy to see you!

Emily: Me too, girl, always! 

Chloé: I’ve been asking [Line-Up Members] “how did you get involved with Breaking & Entering, but why don't you tell us how Breaking & Entering was birthed! 

Emily: Sure! Well, late in 2018, me you and Kevin [Russell Poole, Associate Artistic Director] all went to the Clubbed Thumb [Early-Career] Directors showcase.

Chloé: Winterworks!

Emily: Yes, Winterworks, thank you! It was so much fun I loved it and everything, but it was funny and sad and interesting all at the same time because I obviously enjoyed all the work, and then I was reading all of their bios, and I was like “I'm literally never going to get a directing opportunity in this city!” Like not even one in a studio space like this, you know, nobody is going to give me permission to be the kind of artist that I want to be right now, so I am going to make a space where I can do that, and other people who are at a similar spot in their career can also do that. And it was a very collaborative process of deciding what this organization was going to be, and who was going to be involved in it because [Kevin and I] initially had that conversation of, “oh this is so disheartening, like I don't have a directing credit at Lincoln Center so i'm never going to get anything” so we were kind of commiserating, and the idea for this grew out of that. That's basically the baby genesis story.

Chloé: You know, I don't think that I really knew how you guys started talking about it! Okay so you kind of mentioned this but talk a little bit about the hats you wear as an artist! 

Emily: I wear soooo many hats, and I like it that way! In undergrad I really focussed on my directing work and dramaturgical work, but after moving to the city and getting a feel for what I'm capable of accomplishing as an artist, and what skills I have that complement other people, I've been doing a lot of stage management work on small indie projects, I’ve been a creative producer on most everything that Breaking & Entering has done, I write a little bit. I don't claim writer as one of my titles.

Chloé: You are a fantastic writer!

Emily: Well that's sweet, Chloé.

Chloé: And you're a poet! I think you can claim poet and writer.

Emily: Okay okay maybe I will! Poet and writer then, let's add it to the mix.

Chloé: A new hat just arrived!

Emily: A new hat! But yeah, I think that's about it. I worked in a box office! My day job pre-the entire theatre industry shutting down, I was working in a box office and doing front of house work, which I really enjoyed. I just like working with other people and getting the chance to be in space with other people.

Chloé: There are very few theatrical hats that you do not wear.

Emily: Yeah (laughs) yeah, I mean, I like to try everything out! I remember realizing when I was in my late teens that I was not going to be, you know, everybody wants to be an actor when they’re 15 years old, and I remember realizing that wasn't going to happen.

Chloé: Was it when you starred in Cats?

Emily: I did not star in Cats! I was just in a high school production of Cats. But anyway, yeah, once I realized I did not have the talent to really yeah do that, I was like “I love theatre still” and I just wanted to spend as much time as I could making cool things with other people that I wouldn't be able to make by myself. So I guess I'm just trying on all the hats as often as I can because it's fun!

Chloé: Rotating hats! Kind of on that note, can you talk a little bit about your work as a director? 

Emily: I mean, as a director specifically, I mean as a theatre person in general, I like working in a new works environment. I love developing work. I love, specifically, working with other female playwrights and bringing their vision to life. I love the stories of women– and other oppressed genders– but I gravitate towards women because I am one, and I know that story in a personal way. I like funky things, I also like making people sad! I really like making people sad, which isn't something that I have been doing too often lately but I love a good depressing play [that] just hits you in the gut and makes you want to sob.

Chloé: I think you, as a director, have a fantastic way of getting to the emotion of a piece without belaboring it or making it emotionally manipulative. You're very good at taking an audience on a journey along with the playwright. You’re so good at taking the playwright's vision and putting it on a stage in a way that is so emotionally connected in a very truthful, very earned way. I feel like it's a particular talent of yours.

Emily: Thank you! That's very nice! Yeah, I like any and every kind of theatre. I’ve tried to figure out my “aesthetic” because I’m a Taurus and I love the concept of aesthetics, but I really just love to play and tell stories that are worth telling and that excite me and that excite other people and help bring us together in some way. Like, there's something that we can share in that emotional gut punch or the, I don't know, the sex-bot in Sweet Shop [by Tori Lassman, member of The Line-Up] or whatever brings us together. 

Chloé: That's definitely something that you bring. I also think, one of the things I've noticed about the work you gravitate toward, once again there's an emotional journey, but there's an element of fun and whimsy, which is also kind of who you are as a collaborator! You do theatre because it's fun and like that's a thing that you bring to the room that makes you so valuable as a collaborator! And actually, on that note, what do you look for in a collaborator?

Emily: I look for someone with a generous spirit. That sounds so corny and dumb, but that’s really what it is. I hate to use the word “vibe” because I hate the word so much, but it's totally a vibe! It's also in the way that an individual approaches the work. I just look for somebody who is a generous heart and is willing to meet me where I am because I know I'm going to meet you wherever you are. 

Chloé: Okay we’ll have time for two more questions! What is your proudest artistic achievement to date?

Emily: It’s gotta be PEA Fest [The Pre-Emerging Artist Festival]. It’s gotta be PEA Fest! Just because it was the first thing that we all really got to produce together, that [we] actually sold tickets for– it it wasn't a free event or a pay what you can kind of deal– it was like “we're actually selling tickets, were actually in a real theatre in midtown manhattan, we did it!” I was really proud of what we were able to pull together. It was totally a struggle at many points, and it was a labor of love if nothing else. I just had such a blast working on Sweet Shop with Tori, that was just such an incredible opportunity to get my hands on that, and also to be able to learn, in a trial-by-fire way, everything that it was going to take for us to produce work. Until you're actually doing it, you don't know how it's going to go or what's going to come up, so it was cool to live through that and actually make it out at the end having produced a little tiny festival! 

Chloé: I would hope that you were proud of that; you put so much into it and it was so much fun.

Emily: We all did! We all put so much of ourselves into it. And that's why we were able to make it happen!

Chloé: My last question is: What kind of projects are you looking to work on in the future?

Emily: Well, right now, virtual theatre interests me in terms of producing. I'm really interested in what that process looks like and the different intricacies that come up in this new medium. I am workshopping a script with Molly Van Der Molen [member of The Line-Up] right now and it's been quite a while that I've been working on it with her, so I'm excited to keep seeing where that goes and what comes out of it!

Chloé: Is this something that you’ve been writing?

Emily: Yeah. I’m writing and she’s “doula-ing” my play, that's what she says, it's so so wonderful. And talk about a generous spirit! She just brings so much love to every interaction so it's nice to just have space to talk with her about my life and figure out how to convey whatever story it is that I'm trying to tell. 

Chloé: I truly can't wait to see what you and Molly are cooking! Thank you so much for talking with me, Emily

Emily: Of course, thank you!

You can keep up with Emily’s theatre and crochet endeavors on her Instagram (@goplacidlyamidthenoise) and Twitter (@b00b_eck). Check out her website, emilybubeck.com, and apply to PEA Fest 2021!

Tori Lassman Makes Revolutionary Theatre With Her Boogers

by Chloé Hayat, edited by Kevin Russell Poole, photos by Kevin Russell Poole

This week, Chloé called up Tori Lassman for a (not so) brief chat about the kind of theatre she likes to make. Chloé and Tori have been best friends for 12 years, so it was less of an interview, and more of an energetic smorgasbord of laughter, friendly insults, and incredible analogies. Tori was wearing a Lou Reed t-shirt, and what can only be described as Sexy Lady Silhouette earrings. She, as usual, looked amazing. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity. 

Chloé Hayat: Hi Tori!

Tori Lassman: Hi!

Chloé: I’m excited to ask you some questions!

Tori: I’m excited to answer some questions!

Chloé: Okay, well I just wanna know how you identify as an artist, like, how do you describe what you do, how many hats do you wear?

Tori: I am like… Ever heard the story of the man with many hats?

Chloé: Caps For Sale!

Tori: Caps For Sale, monkeys keep stealing them?

Chloé: (Laughs)

Tori: Yeah monkeys keep stealing his hats and he doesn't know who took his caps. Anyway, I like to imagine myself as both the man, all the hats, and the monkeys stealing the hats. And while I say that I mean that I first and foremost identify as a playwright, but that's the man selling the hats. But I love selling hats so much and hats are so amazing that I would love to put as many hats on as I can because I’m interested in all the different aspects of things to do.

Chloé: Tori i think you're going to want to rephrase this you’re not making any sense. (laughing) Okay let me rephrase the question.

Tori: I’m gonna keep the analogy.

Chloé: No, no, please don’t keep the analogy. Hi Tori, how do you identify as an artist?

Tori: So you know the story of the man who sells lots of caps? And the monkeys keep stealing them? (laughs) Okay okay, I identify foremost as a playwright but I really am interested in all aspects [of theatre]. First I started in acting, and then through that found playwriting.

Chloé: And that was in middle school?

Tori: In middle school.

Chloé: You played Viola in Twelfth Night.

Tori: Oh it was horrible. My acting teacher once told me that my eyes were so dead that you could stick two pencils through them! (laughs) But anyway, I'm also interested in all aspects of theatre in terms of producing, a little bit directing, and really just everything.

Chloé: You have a lot of experience self-producing.

Tori: That's true, and I really like self-producing!

Chloé: Tell us all about your experience self-producing. Where did you start?

Tori: I would say [self-producing] first started in high school when I would mime on the street and make characters to sell clothing with my friend. I think that was like the beginning of self-producing. I was really interested in just dressing up and interacting with people and going on the train and you know, like, creating something. And then through college with you and Anna [O’Connell] and a bunch of other people, we kind of started doing our own self producing.

Chloé: And Gabby Sprenkle, who is also in The Line-Up.

Tori: Of course, yeah, and everything we do with [our theatre company,] After School Special Theatre is all independently produced, and I am just excited by that. It’s fun, I think, especially with self-producing and doing theatre that's kind of unconventional and a little bit more interactive, it’s really fun interacting with people in a character and having someone play with you because it brings you back to being a little kid. And we’ve done a lot of shows where we give [audience members] cue cards of what character they are and it frees people to enjoy themselves and be childlike and dirty and raunchy and I think that's really fun to bring that out in someone.

Chloé: Yeah and you're really good at letting an audience lose [their] inhibitions because you’re so over the top when you're performing, that it encourages people to follow your lead.

Tori: Yeah, I call it, “I Make a Fool of Me, You Make a Fool of You”

Chloé: That is what you call it! You say it all the time! This is not the first time I’ve heard it!

Tori: This better be in the write-up or I’m fucking blowing this cat up. (Kevin’s note: Tori, I have met your demands, please back away from the cat!)

Chloé: Okay, how did you get involved with Breaking & Entering?

Tori: Well, obviously [we] both interned at New Dramatists where I met Emily [Bubeck, Artistic Director] and Kevin [Russell Poole, Associate Artistic Director] through [you], who met them at New Dramatists.

Chloé: (laughing)

Tori: Long story short: New Dramatists! 

Chloé: And so tell me about your first show with [Breaking & Entering].

Tori: Oh yeah yeah, the first show I did was the Rooftop Reading [Unadjusted AKA Milk is Dairy Days are Daily] and I had the very lucky opportunity to work with Miss Emily who is so fantastic, and several of the Line-Up artists were in that as well!

Chloé: So it was Kevin, Lauren [DiMario]

Tori: Gabby [Sprenkle] 

Chloé: and E.B. [Hinnant]

Tori: Yeah and Aleigha [Spinks]! I think it really helped me work on that play. And I thought the space was really exciting too!

Chloé: Yeah because so much of [the play] takes place on a street corner, and there were such good sound effects on the rooftop in [Brooklyn] of, like, sirens; it just worked so well!

Tori: Yeah I feel like it made it so much more cinematic. Which is cool because I see that play that way too.

Chloé: And then the next thing you did was PEA Fest last year. 

Tori: Yeah, where I also got to work with Emily again which was also amazing.

Chloé: All Star team! Okay, what words would you use to describe your artistic sensibility?

Tori: I would say that a lot of it is based in making the filthy things in life beautiful. I think I'm interested in outsiders and weirdnesses in the world that excite me and the little magical moments that make life exciting. I am interested in the poetry of being a pervert, sexual power dynamics, and the gore and triumph of being a lady. Also I am interested in creating work that's somewhat political but still accessible and fun.

Chloé: I think that's a really good description of your work. Is there a moment from your childhood that you could use to describe who you are as an artist now?

Tori: Once I was with my parents in this store– I forget where we were, but it was kind of a fancy store– and i was probably 7-ish or 8, and the lady was getting mad at me because I kept touching everything and she was being really snotty. She made a rude comment to me about not touching the stuff, and I got mad at her, so I picked my nose and, while she looked away, I rubbed my boogers all over the glass cabinet. I think [I’m] making work that is like rebelling or revolutionary in some way but [I’m] doing it through [my] boogers. That's my rebellion.

Chloé: Yeah it is, I think that's true and I think it's a good rebellion. What's your favorite theatrical experience that you've been a part of? That you've written or acted in or participated in in some way.

Tori: In terms of shows that i've participated in and gone to would be when Taylor Mac was doing [A 24-Decade] History of Popular Music, I saw one of those shows and it was really amazing and a lot of audience participation was involved, and at one point I volunteered because it was a song that was about mooning, like being under the moonlight, and they had people come up to flash their butt whenever Taylor Mac said moon, so that was really fun.

Chloé: (laughing) How did I know that's where that was going? 

Tori: Am I the worst?

Chloé: No not at all! Okay, what is your proudest artistic achievement?

Tori: I would say one of them would definitely be when I did Sweet Shop with Emily at PEA Fest because it was the first time I had ever really had anything close to a production of a play I had written. It was one of the most fantastic experiences in my life to write something and work with really amazing people. It was so cool to have all these different people involved, it wasn't just me, like, doing costumes.

Chloé: And there were actors who were hired to be actors.

Tori: And there were actors who were actually actors and not just people I found off the street  or that I had begged to be in it! I just felt like seeing it was exciting since I wrote this, but we all did this. And it was really cool to have that instead of being one of the main people doing everything. I felt like I was really able to watch that and be present and see my work and see how amazing we did.

Chloé: I am so happy that we got to sit down and chat about your work. I love you, and I love you as an artist.

Tori: Aw I love you and I love you as an artist too!

Chloé: And I'm glad that we have you in The Line-Up, and I’m glad that I learned the story about you putting boogers on fancy objects.

You can follow Tori on Instagram (@clit_o_patra), check out her theatre company, After-School Special Theatre, at their website and Instagram (@afterschoolspecial.theatre), and read her plays on New Play Exchange! 

Sophia Isabel Quiroga Really Loves Sad Music

by Chloé Hayat, edited by Kevin Russell Poole, photos by Kevin Russell Poole

This week, Chloé Hayat, the director of our resident artist program, The Line-Up, sat down with one of our artists, Sophia Isabel Quiroga, for a Zoom chat about her relationship to theatre, her artistic obsessions, and what she’s been working on. After a few moments of gushing over Sophia’s newly rose gold hair, Chloé jumped right into the questions. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Chloé Hayat: How do you identify yourself as an artist? What are the hats that you wear, your multi-hyphenate, give us the full rundown!

Sophia Isabel Quiroga: I’m predominantly an actor. I've always been like “I’m an actor, that’s what I do” but I also have my degree in playwriting.

Chloé: I didn’t know that!

Sophia: Yeah, we had the theatre degree [B.A. in Theatre and Dance from the University of Texas at Austin] and my focus was playwriting (laughs) so right now I’m like “no I’m an actor and a writer!” I would say those are my hats!

Chloé: You're also a poet judging by last time I saw your work in the [Line-Up] Writer’s Group.

Sophia: That’s true that’s true, I guess I’m just [an] overall writer!

Chloé: I just learned so much about you I didn't know! How did you get into those forms? How did you get where you are?

Sophia: I’ve been doing theatre since I was a kid. I went to theatre camps in San Antonio, and then I went to a performing arts high school and I was doing musical theatre. Then I auditioned for like 14 programs, and I didn’t make it into any of them, so I had a few months where I was just like “okay, what now?” because I had been a musical theatre person forever; that was what I was going to do. So for a little bit [I was] like “maybe I’ll go to a different school, maybe i'll go do fashion or something,” but I had this moment where I [accepted] I didn't want to do anything else. Nothing was really sparking my interest as much as acting. Even the writing focus, that was kind of accidental because I didn't want to take Acting 1 through 3 again, so I was like “I’ll just try some other stuff; I’ll do directing and writing,” so I think the writing kind of came second. I don’t think I realized that I could do anything writing-related for real just because I’ve always been a bit of a slow reader and I can’t spell for shit, but lately writing has been something I’m really focussing on.

Chloé: Who are [the] most influential artists in your field that like you feel like you can look up to?

Sophia: Oh my gosh, I feel like there's a lot. As far as writing goes, I get a lot of inspiration from songwriters. I think that the poetry in songwriting is pretty big for me. So people like Phoebe Bridgers, Aimee Mann, [and] Lake Street Dive [have] really great lyrics. And then for acting, that's a hard question, there’s a lot of actors that I really like!

Chloé: List as many as you feel like you have to!

Sophia: People like America Ferrara, and other Latinx actors [have] been very important to me to find and kind of emulate, and Ilana Glazer from Broad City.

Chloé: Of course.

Sophia: Because she's kind of like, you know, fun, [and] I hate to use the term “ethnically ambiguous” but (laughs) that helps a lot.

Chloé: I get that!

Sophia: Yeah! Rashida Jones from Parks and Rec, I really  appreciate her career. I like that she kind of blends into all of these different roles. I just like people who like to have a good time and make what they want to make.

Chloé: So what do you look for in an ideal collaborator when you're like choosing a project?

Sophia: I like people, obviously, who I can get along with. I feel like a lot of people are nice and friendly, so that's not very hard, but I think a good mix between organization in the rehearsal room, but also playing around and collaborating. I love going into a rehearsal room and, let's say the director already has blocking, so that's like a place to jump off of, and even then things might change, nothing is like super rigid and has to be “this way.” I love when everyone brings a jumping off point to bounce off of and then creating whatever it can be together.

Chloé: Totally! So do you wanna just like tell us how you got involved with Breaking & Entering?

Sophia: Yeah! I knew Kevin [Russell Poole, Associate Artistic Director] from UT; we’re from the same department. When I moved to New York, I did a rooftop reading with Kevin and they just needed an actor, so i came on, (Kevin’s Note: This is a gross misrepresentation of how Sophia was cast in her first reading! I had been obsessed with her since I saw her in Spring Awakening at UT, and then I was lucky enough to see her in a reading a couple weeks after she moved to the city, and I begged her to be the lead in that reading!) and then from there, PEA Fest happened (Another Kevin Note: I also begged her to be the lead in Abandon All Hope: Bees Who Enter Here by Sarah Marksteiner), so I got to meet other people from Breaking & Entering and then The Line-Up happened, and then Covid happened (laughs)!

Chloé: (laughs) Pretty much immediately! And was Nick [Nicholas Vasillios Pappas]’s play [Another One of those Love Triangles] your first rooftop reading?

Sophia: Yes!

Chloé: You were so good!

Sophia: Oh thank you! I had a lot of fun doing that.

Chloé: Okay, I wanna know what your secret artistic obsession is and what your not so secret obsession is.

Sophia: Oooh, okay, my not so secret obsession would be sad music. I love sad music, don't give me the aux cord, like, we will be sad! (laughs) I just love sad music.

Chloé: You want everyone to cry!

Sophia: Yes! (laughs) And then, I don't think this is a secret, I really really like stand up comedy, like I’ll listen to stand up comedy albums and watch stuff like that.

Chloé: Who's your favorite to listen to?

Sophia: Beth [Stelling], and I love Hannah Gadsby, her Netflix special.

Chloé: Oh yeah.

Sophia: I love Natasha Leggero, and her husband Moshe Kasher, they’re pretty funny. Jim Gaffigan, I love Jim Gaffigan, Sarah Silverman, Aparna Nancherla.

Chloé: There's no way this is a secret obsession, your list is [so extensive], like, it’s definitely coming through that you care very much!

Sophia: It’s pretty big!

Chloé: Can you tell us what about stand-up comedy you feel gravitated towards?

Sophia: Honestly? Okay, honestly. I think it’s because when I was in elementary school I had multiple boys tell me that I wasn't funny, and I think that scarred me, and so when I found stand up comedy, I just, I enjoyed laughing! And when you start to learn about it there's a lot more, it's not just people being funny, there's a joke and a punchline and an order; I think I like that there's kind of more to it than just like being funny.

Chloé: Okay our last question is: what have you been working on these days?

Sophia: i’ve been working on a lot of poetry! I had all of these little notes on my phone, and so I put them all on notecards and figured out what the common themes were, and then I put them together! So now I have, like 24 poems that are in the beginning stages of drafting. So right now I’m just trying to get it more concise and somehow loop them all together to make a kind of cohesive story. And I would love— I’m nervous to say this out loud— I would love to get that published in a year or so; by the time I'm 25. I think that would be really cool!

Chloé: And from what you've brought in (to the Writers Group), they’re amazing.

Sophia: Thank you!

Chloé: I found that, in the last set that I heard, it's clear that you're a playwright. Even though I didn't know it at the time, the fact that you create these like very clear beginning, middle, [and] ends through imagery and texture, you're clearly a storyteller.

Sophia: Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!

Chloé: You're welcome, it's true!

You can keep up with Sophia on Instagram (@sophiaqtpie) and Twitter (@_sophiaisabel_) and you can watch her most recent project with Breaking & Entering, the Virtual Rooftop Reading of Break by Ruthie Rado!